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Have We Made the Bible Into an Idol?


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Have We Made the Bible Into an Idol?

Every now and then, I spot the following proclamation on a bumper sticker: “God said it. I believe it. That settles it.” If only Scriptural interpretation were really that easy!

After reading your responses to my post, “When a Theology Just Doesn’t Feel Right,” I felt it appropriate to address the topic of biblical authority, as our discussion often drifted in that direction. I’d like to explore the idea that the way the Bible is being used in modern Christian circles, particularly among conservative evangelicals, may in fact border on idolatry.

As Micah noted, even a Christian apologists committed to the doctrine of inerrancy has suggested that something is amiss. Apologist J.P. Morland wrote in a 2007 article, “Today, I am more convinced of inerrancy than at any time in my Christian life, but the charge of bibliolatry, or at least a near, if not kissing cousin, is one I fear is hard to rebut. To be more specific, in the actual practices of the Evangelical community in North America, there is an over-commitment to Scripture in a way that is false, irrational, and harmful to the cause of Christ.”

Moreland’s main objection seems to be with the notion that the Bible is the sole source of knowledge about God, morality, faith, and practice, when there are other forces at work, such as reason, experience and historical Creeds. I share in Moreland's reservations in this area, but also have concerns about how the term "inerrant" is used.

Rollins on Conceptual Idolatry

This topic coincides nicely with some ideas put forth by Peter Rollins in our Book Club selection for the month of May, How (Not) to Speak of God.

In Chapter 1, Rollins briefly explores the notion of idolatry. He writes that “the term can be understood to refer to any attempt that would render the essence of God accessible, bringing God into either aesthetic visibility (in the form of a physical structure, such as a statue) or conceptual visibility (in the form of a concept, such as a theological system.)…The only significant difference between the aesthetic idol and the conceptual idol lies in the fact that the former reduces God to a physical object while the latter reduces God to an intellectual object.” (12)

Rollins clarifies that “idolatry does not rest in the idea of the object itself but rather in the eye of the beholder. In other words, it is the way one engages with an object or idea that makes an idol and idol rather than some kind of property within it.” (12)

Rollins suggests that something like idolatry may be going on in the Western Church in regard to the Bible. 

He writes that “in the Bible we find a vast array of competing stories concerning the character of God that are closely connected to the concrete circumstances of those who inhabit the narrative. Just as personality tests offer us an unrealistic image of ourselves as a single whole, overlooking the fact that we are not only many different things in many different situations but also changing over time, so Western theology has all too often reduced the beautifully varied and complex descriptions of God found in the Bible to a singular reading that does violence to its vibrant nature.” (12)

At the end of the post, you will see how Rollins resolves this issue, suggesting that the very nature of the Bible protects it from becoming an idol.

Picking and Choosing: Everybody’s Doing It


Last week, a reader responded to one of my posts by saying, “I guess I don’t have the luxury of picking and choosing scripture for my own personal comfort and conscience.” Another wrote, “The cold, hard fact remains that if you don’t accept all of the Bible, then you are the ultimate judge of which parts you do accept. That leaves you in the position of picking and choosing. This is a dangerous place to be since by nature we are all evil, corrupt people, bent on our own self desires.”

But don’t we all pick and choose which portions of the Bible we take literally? Very few evangelicals support polygamy, which was practiced by the godly patriarchs of the Bible. I don’t know a whole lot of friends who refuse to eat shrimp because they think it’s an abomination, as it was described in the Old Testament, (using the same terminology used to describe homosexuality.) Most mainline evangelical churches do not require women to cover their heads, despite Paul’s most emphatic admonition in 1 Corinthians that they do so. And I’ve only met a few people who have taken Jesus literally and sold all of their belongings to give to the poor.

We pick and choose which Scripture we want to take seriously every day! We do it with our theological positions as well. For example, as an inclusivist, I really like the Revelation 5:9 passage in which the saints claim of Christ that “with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.” You might say that I take that verse literally. Now, I could claim that exclusivists are “picking and choosing” which passages they take literally, to the neglect of this one. However, I also see that there are other passages that can be used to support the exclusivist view, so despite the fact that I interpret those passages differently, I’m not prepared to claim that exclusivists are the ones picking and choosing. We all are!

An Infallible Scripture Requires an Infallible Reader


This brings me to my main objection to the use of the term inerrancy A friend of mine once summarized his commitment to inerrancy by proclaiming that “the Bible is the only thdoctrine of ing unaffected by the Fall.” 

While I appreciate such reverence and respect for the Bible, I think the problem with this statement, and with the doctrine of inerrancy as it is often explained, is that it (inadvertently) relies on the inerrancy of the reader to hold together. You see, the Bible must ALWAYS be interpreted. It does not exist in a vacuum. As Crystal Downing argues, "The Bible is not self-interpreting. Humans must infer meaning even as they seek to extract God’s truth.” Intuition is not the only thing subject to (mis)interpretation.

God has chosen to reveal Himself with human words, written by human hands, read by human eyes, interpreted by human brains. Mitch is right when he says “we are all evil, corrupt people, bent on our own self desires.” Whether we like to admit it or not, whenever we read the Bible, we bring with us those selfish desires, those fallible minds, those cultural constructs and presuppositions.  I really struggle to embrace the idea that a person can somehow read the Bible with 100 percent objectivity without interpreting it and without being influenced by his or her interpretive community.  It doesn’t make sense to me.

A lot of Protestants object to the Catholic dogma of papal infallibility. As evangelicals, have we perhaps transferred that dogma to the Bible, resulting in the splintering off of countless denominations as each claims its interpretation as God’s own?

Of course, I’m not saying that we cannot interact with God through the Bible or make truth claims about what it says. However, I think that as evangelicals we must keep in mind how often we create the Bible in our own image. We  must be wary of claiming that our interpretations are infallible, using the doctrine of inerrancy to immediately discount any ideas that differ from our own. And I think we must be wary of claiming that we can somehow read the Bible objectively, without a variety of other factors (tradition, experience, and reason) playing a role…which brings me to the lovely Wesleyan Quadrilateral.

Sola Scriptura?

We’ve got to keep in mind that having four different versions of the Bible stacked on top of one another in our bedrooms, available for reading at any time, is a relatively new phenomenon. For centuries, Christians have interacted with Scripture without being able to read it for themselves. They relied on priests or on oral tradition to learn and interpret the beloved Bible stories with which we are so familiar today.

(I think we underestimate the role that the Enlightenment has played in our belief in objective observation. This modernist-influenced hyper-individualism, the idea that “it’s just me and the Bible,” is naïve in that it ignores the other powerful ways in which God speaks to us…both today and throughout the Church’s history.)

As I mentioned before, I’m a big fan of what has been called the Wesleyan Quadrilateral. John Wesley used four different sources in coming to theological conclusions:

1. Scripture
2. Tradition (Church history)
3. Reason (rational thinking and sensible interpretation)
4. Experience (intuition, personal spiritual journey, etc.)


It is hard to argue that one can exist independently of the others. For example, we must have faith in our Christian tradition in order to give authority to the Bible because members of the early church picked which writings would be included in the Bible. We have to use reason to interpret the Bible and to pick and choose which traditions are most fitting in our culture. All of this is filtered through the lens of our experience. To say that one of these epistemological pillars ought to be elevated over the others…or that one doesn’t need to be there…throws everything off balance.

As I mentioned before, this is the attitude rejected by Moreland. However, Moreland still argues that Scripture is the ultimate authority.

The Purpose of the Bible


Finally, I think it’s appropriate to examine what the Bible says about itself.

Paul wrote that “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” (I Timothy 3:16-17)

I believe that the primary purpose of the Bible is to equip us to do good works, not to help us win arguments, not prove other people wrong, and not to support our own lusts for power or domination of others.

I like what Brian McLaren says about this in A Generous Orthodoxy:

“Interestingly, when Scripture talks about itself, it doesn’t use the language we often use in our explanations of its value. For modern Western Christians, words like authority, inerrancy, infallibility, revelation, objective, absolute, and literal are crucial. Many churches or denominations won’t allow people to become members unless they use these words in their description of Scripture…Oddly, I’ve never heard of a church or denomination that asked people to affirm a doctrinal statement like this: The purpose of Scripture is to equip God’s people for good works. Shouldn’t a simple statement like this be far more important than statements with words foreign to the Bible’s vocabulary about itself?” (182-183)

Rollins on the Bible as Idolatry-Proof


In How (Not) to Speak of God, Rollins concludes that the greatest hope for escaping an idolatrous relationship with the Bible is finding refuge in the dynamic and diverse narrative of the Bible itself. In one of my favorite passages from the book, he writes:

“The Bible itself is a dynamic text full of poetry, prose, history, law and myth all clashing together in a cacophony of voices. We are presented with a warrior God and a peacemaker, a God of territorial allegiance and a God who transcends all territorial divides, an unchanging God and a God who can be redirected…

“Evidently, such conflict were not judged to be problematic [by the writers and compilers of Scripture], but were accepted. Indeed, such fissures help to prevent us from forming an idolatrous image of God, ensuring that none of us can legitimately claim to understand God as God really is. Consequently, the text bars any attempt  at colonization by individuals or groups who claim to possess an insight into its true meaning.” (13)

---

So what do you think? Have we made the Bible into an idol? Does the concept of inerrancy place too much emphasis on the infallibility of the reader? What is the primary purpose of the Bible?

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Comments:

Comment
Re: Have We Made the Bible Into an Idol?
Reply #1 on : Wed May 14, 2008, 15:39:36
We've traded in the ink on the page for the words of our beloved God.

I think you've nailed it. But Scripture is a very powerful hammer that people like to throw, so they probably won't agree with you.
Julie
Comment
Thinking.....
Reply #2 on : Wed May 14, 2008, 16:59:53
I will have to come back later and read the article by Mooreland and I need to think about the Wesylyn approach. I'm not sure I think that literal interpretations vs spiritualizing them vs. cultural interpretations are the same a picking and choosing passage like Thomas Jefferson did because he didn't believe the Bible to be inerrant. Although I don't know if I can bring myself to agree that the Bible is an idol. However, overall I think I agree with the over all point of the post, including our fallibility in interpreting the Bible. The Bible shouldn't create divisions! It is for equipping us for good works! AMEN to that!

I do have one question about a quote. "The Bible itself is a dynamic text full of poetry, prose, history, law and myth all clashing together in a cacophony of voices..." What part of the Bible is he referring to as "Myth.?"

Well, I'm off to take my kids to AWANA where they can learn Bible verses that I pray will equip them for good works not divisiveness!

Thanks for all of your hard work on the Blog Rachel, it must take up most of your time!
Comment
Myth...
Reply #3 on : Wed May 14, 2008, 17:21:24
Job=Myth.
Jonah=Myth.
Myth=Narrative power to convey deep meaning beyond what fact/history can contain.

That word myth can be hard to swallow because we think myth means fake and false. Read Karen Armstrong's work on myth and I think you'll understand where the author is coming from.

Just to name a few. Some folks even think Jesus was an amalgamation of Jewish folk tales/teachings. (or at least much of what is attributed to him).
Last Edit: May 26, 2008, 09:33:15 by Rachel H. Evans  
Julie
Comment
Myth....
Reply #4 on : Thu May 15, 2008, 01:20:52
David,
Ok, so your not saying that Job and Jonah aren't true stories your saying that they are true but the stories themselves has little meaning in themselves. And that the bigger meaning is more than a sum of its parts so to speak? So would that make the whole Bible a Myth?

This may be a proper use of the word myth according to Karen Armstrong, but most of us haven't read her book. If I had time I would try to read it, thank you for suggesting it. I did looked up the definition in Merriam-Websters online dictionary to get an idea of what most people might think of myth as meaning. I feel that the over all use and connotation of the word myth says that the story itself is untrue or hyperbolized. This being the case I don't feel that referring to Johna and Job as myths would be appropriate when wanting to convey that they are true and accurate stories as written in the Bible.

I'm not quite sure what your getting at about Jesus being a legend or folk story. So far I haven't run in to anyone who think that and at the same time believe he is who he claimed to be according to Gospels (i.e GOD). If you hold both as being true, I can't say I will agree with you, but I would be happy to hear how you reconcile the two ideas.
Comment
Myth...
Reply #5 on : Thu May 15, 2008, 10:31:24
Quick comment, because the kid just woke up.

I don't think that Jonah and Job stories historically happened. But I don't think that's what is important. What is important is the meaning conveyed by them. I think we in the West tend to underestimate the power of myth to orient and shape our lives.

THe comment about Jesus is to say that not everything in the Gospels, historically, is necessarily something Jesus said. Scholars have made good arguments that some of what he said is legend, added to by later writers, etc. Indeed, much of what Jesus said were sayings other rabbis had already said. The difference, I would argue, between them and him was that he *lived* the message, he *incarnated* it.

Gotta go.If you're interested in this take on the subject, visit my site and join some of the discussions there.
Last Edit: May 26, 2008, 09:34:13 by Rachel H. Evans  
kristen
Comment
Re: Have We Made the Bible Into an Idol?
Reply #6 on : Thu May 15, 2008, 15:30:19
while i would perhaps disagree with some of david's examples, his argument that westerners tend to underestimate the value of myth in the cultures in which abraham and Christ lived is valid, i think. the point of rollins' statement is not to outline specific portions of the Bible as myth (though i would point to some of the proverbs as a viable possibility for this). rather, the point is to remember that the humans who compiled and wrote (under inspiration from the Spirit) the Bible were influenced by myth and myth making. also i would argue the relevance of this quote in relation to the myths that humans throughout history have made from the text of the Bible.

myth and memory are hot topics in academia at the moment. actual events are often mythologized by communities and societies. to use the term myth does not imply falsehood so much as the qualities individuals or social groups place on events and people.

in short, for this discussion, i think that myth references the mythmaking of the 'pen holders' of the Bible as well as the mythmaking of the readers of the Bible.

hmm--you never know what directions the conversation will take, do you? in answer to rachel's questions-
-i do think that some people have made the Bible into an idol (though that is my 'gut' reaction from reading your post; i have not thought about the Bible in that way before).
-i absolutely agree that the concept of inerrancy places too much on the infallibility of the reader. i also agree that we all pick and choose scriptures on which to place emphasis. although i foresee some arguing that the new covenant with Jesus negates some of the old testament laws that you brought up. homosexuality remains a focus (while shrimp eating does not) because it earned a mention in the new testament (romans 1). that gossip and slander are condemned in the same breath, often gets less notice, however.
-i am less clear on what i see as the primary purpose of the Bible. i think about the Bible as teaching and as a means to better know God. i suppose in my mind the emphasis of the verse rachel quoted from timothy was on teaching itself rather than on the purpose of the teaching--good works.
Matt
Comment
inerrancy is unhelpful
Reply #7 on : Thu May 15, 2008, 23:42:17
I was very impressed with this post, Rachel. This is not an easy topic to speak about with any clarity. I thought you offered some very helpful comments while skillfully maneuvering the delicacies of the issue. The article you linked was good too. Thanks.

I thought I might throw in a few comments of my own.

Regarding your questions:

1) Have we made the Bible into an idol? Absolutely. There is not doubt in my mind about this and it is something I have believe for several years now. By "we," here, I mean the Church, in general--though certainly, as Moreland points out, N. American Evangelicals have taken it to a new level in contemporary discourse. The idolization of the Bible, in my opinion, came part and parcel with the institutionalization of the Church itself. Once the followers of Jesus moved from a community of people who based their fellowship upon common inspiration from a unique revelatory event (life, death, and resurrection of Christ) to an institutionalized religion with certain doctrines, rites, rituals, membership, etc. the Bible came to be used as a key source to try to parse out what "true" christian doctrine was and who "true" members of the church were. [I realize I am speaking in general terms--as well as run-on sentences]. It often amazes me how often Evangelicals seem to equate christian faithfulness with faithfulness to the Bible. Thus, if someone is perceived as questioning something in the Bible or challenging its absolute authority, the person is seen as deeply unchristian. It also means that Evangelicals tend to have very little vision for what the faithfulness of the individual and the Church might look like without an over-zealous commitment to the Bible.

2) Does the concept of inerrancy place too much emphasis on the infallibility of the reader? Yes. My own convictions regarding inerrancy is not so much that it is not true--for determining such a claim is epistemologically impossible--but that inerrancy is an unhelpful way the think about the Bible. It is not a useful doctrine for the building up of the Church. Inerrancy can't be proven or disproven, but is ultimately an act of faith. It is an act of faith which many christians are taught to believe as a necessary starting point for the Christian life. I've heard it said too many times that without inerrancy, the basis for the Christian faith crumbles. I believe this to be a prime example of bibliolatry. Some years ago, I had to ask myself this question: did my faith stand or fall with a doctrine of the Bible? I think it ought not. The Bible is too shaky of a foundation to support the christian faith. Only Jesus himself is a solid foundation. One might argue that the Bible is the only way we can know about Jesus. But I believe that my faith is not based on the Bible's description of Jesus, but rather it is the Holy Spirit's inner conviction regarding what I read that validates the Gospels, not a preconceived notion of Biblical inerrancy. For some Christians, if one item in the Bible was proven to be inaccurate or false, then the whole edifice of belief would come crashing down. [this is their words, often used as an argument for the necessity of inerrancy]. I think that is an unhealthy and spiritually unproductive position in which to be.

3) What is the primary purpose of the Bible? This question illustrates one of the negative by-products which often comes with the concept of inerrancy: treatment of the Bible as one univocal, monolithic text. The unity which I believe the Bible enjoys, that is being inspired by God, does not make it univocal or monolithic. There is no one purpose of the Bible. Each of the writers of the Bible wrote with different agendas, intents, and goals. Recognizing the diversity of voices and perspectives, even theological perspectives, within the Bible is one of the greatest weaknesses of Evangelical exegesis.

That being said, I think a better question might be, "what is your primary purpose in reading the Bible?" To which, I would answer: to know God better and to know how to enter into deeper fellowship with him/her/it.


The primary reason I tend to take issue with Evangelicals regarding doctrines of Scripture is not so much to convince them of my opinion, but to try to encourage Evangelicals to stop dividing the church over the issue of Scripture. Inerrancy is not the litmus test for being a "true" Christian. There are many Christians who have, through much prayer and reflection, come to believe inerrancy is unhelpful at best and misleading at worst. It frustrates me to no end when people make this out to be an un-christian perspective.

final notes:
-ditto to Kristen on her comments on myth.
-I have used the term "Evangelical" with a broad and sweeping stroke. This was purely done for the sake of brevity and I do not mean to unduly pigeonhole all Evangelicals. I apologize if I have offended anyone in this regard.
-I clearly do not have the gift of writing succinctly. I apologize for that, too.

-Matt
Comment
"Bible-Believing" vs. "Christ-Following"
Reply #8 on : Fri May 16, 2008, 15:50:14
Matt, I thought you might appreciate this quote from Crystal Downing:

"One descriptor I'd like us to reconsider is the identifying term employed by many evangelicals: 'Bible-believing.' Perhaps it would be more helpful--and accurate--to characterize ourselves as 'Christ-following.'"
Mitch
Comment
The Bible
Reply #9 on : Fri May 16, 2008, 20:23:11
Without all of the Bible being viewed as truth (inerrancy), I can describe Christ, Christianity as anything I want him to be . . . exactly what the emergent church is currently doing.

The Bible is not God, but it is the word of God. Those who would ignore it, minimize it, or change it do so at their own peril. According to Genesis 3 sin entered the world when Satan tempted Eve by saying, "HAS GOD REALLY SAID . . ." It is apparent in the emergent church today that that temptation remains.

The gospel is what makes a person a Christian or not, not their view of the Bible. However the gospel is revealed IN THE BIBLE as the penal substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ for mankind. By placing our faith in his person (the perfect God/man) and work (death on our behalf and example to follow) we are justified by God and adopeted as His sons. This message is received from the Bible and is clearly commended to the church to be proclaimed as the PRIMARY issue that every INDIVIDUAL must deal with.

I will say what I have previously said, the correlation of people who reject inerrancy and then believe inclusivism and cease to evangelize is very high. The correlation of those changing the gospel into a works based "social gospel" in the emergent camp is also very high.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, nor do I wish to continually rehash the same old arguments. I do not embrace a post-modern view of truth in knowing God and therefore do believe the Bible's message stands as the great metanarrative over all kingdoms, tribes, people, time, and cultures. In many ways continued debate on this issue is ineffective because the issue is the perception of reality and truth (epistemology)on which we do not agree. There are other ways of learning and knowing truth such as reason, tradition, and experience. If you reject inerrancy, then they are all equal or you can subjectively elevate one if you like. If you believe in inerrancy, than you use the other three to help you interpret the Bible. Ultimately the Bible is over the others (given the acceptance of inerrancy).

The claim of an inerrant reader being necessary to know an inerrant Bible is not true. It doesn't matter if I'm inerrant or not, gravity still works. It doesn't matter if I'm errant and add 2+2 to get 5, it's still 4. If someone says, "hi" to me and I think they said, "hide", the fact still remains that they said hi. My perception doesn't change reality. In the same way, the Bible can be inerrant without an inerrant reader. We are sinful and in interpreting we can make mistakes. We also must recognize that we must address with the Bible verses the topic that it actually adresses or we run the risk of running amuk in our thinking. However the Holy Spirit was given for this purpose, to guide us into truth. As we yield to the Spirit, we will be guided to understand truth, not fully, but certainly truly. To say otherwise is I believe arrogant. I think that to claim to be an agnostic Christian (we can't know truth with any certainty) is to say that the Almighty God of the universe, who is a relationship, who communicates, who created us in the same way, is unable to communicate clearly enough for us to know truth.

I just want to represent that there is another view that doesn't fit into this postmodern, deconstructive view of the Bible. I'm afraid I've already spent too much time on here, things are crazy for me right now. Fire away those that disagree, I won't have time to respond. Again my point here is simply that another view be represented.
Matt
Comment
Just a few comments
Reply #10 on : Fri May 16, 2008, 22:47:29
Mitch,

I respect your tone. I respect your concern. I am also not trying to pick a fight nor win a debate. But I do like the idea of Christians of different perspectives engaging one another on these core issues, supposing we can do it with mutual respect.

On that note, I add a few comments to yours. You say, "Without all of the Bible being viewed as truth (inerrancy), I can describe Christ, Christianity as anything I want him to be." I think there is an unhealthy tendency of evangelicals to want to control what Christians can say or believe. Your statement is true, but it doesn't bother me. [As an aside, I don't think adhering to inerrancy makes much difference in this regard, though it does constrict the parameters in a unique way, or at least predetermine the way certain views are defended]. Yes, a Christian "could" say whatever they wanted about Jesus, but that doesn't make what they say true, nor compelling, nor significant. The conviction of the Holy Spirit is what ultimately guides people toward the truth of God and Christ.

I think your claim that the Bible teaches penal substitutionary atonement is overstated. While I concur that this is certainly a valid possibility and plausible reading of the texts, it has by no means been the only theory even among Christians who strictly adhere to inerrancy.

You said, "There are other ways of learning and knowing truth such as reason, tradition, and experience. If you reject inerrancy, then they are all equal or you can subjectively elevate one if you like. If you believe in inerrancy, than you use the other three to help you interpret the Bible. Ultimately the Bible is over the others (given the acceptance of inerrancy)." This is true to an extent. But accepting inerrancy as a starting point is also a subjective decision in and of itself. Unfortunately, subjectivity can not be avoided. I think it is more helpful to think about how we can strive towards "honesty" regarding our epistemological process rather than "objectivity,"--the later being particularly elusive.

You say, "I think that to claim to be an agnostic Christian (we can't know truth with any certainty) is to say that the Almighty God of the universe, who is a relationship, who communicates, who created us in the same way, is unable to communicate clearly enough for us to know truth." I could not more strongly disagree with this statement. First of all, it makes no sense to say that because God did not choose to communicate in a clear and certain way, He/She/It therefore cannot communicate in such a way. God is sovereign and can choose to communicate with whatever degree of clarity or obscurity as He/She/It chooses. Furthermore, I think the tendency to claim theological certainty is intellectually dishonest and confuses an admirable strength of faith with intellectually comprehension, resulting in the air of religious arrogance.

But I confess that these are difficult topics. May God guide us and may we allow ourselves to be guided.

-Matt
Julie
Comment
backing Mitch...
Reply #11 on : Sat May 17, 2008, 11:14:25
Actually I want to back inerrancy but I thought that the subject might get your attention.

I don't have much time... about half an hour while my kids watch Little Einstein's.

I said above that I agree with the overal point of the post. I can't say I agree with all of the details.

Points of agreements with the post:
-We are errant. And must keep a humble mind about such things.
-The Bible wasn't given to argue with people but to do good works. It is my position we are to "speak the truth in love" always. The Bible is the truth and we live it out as love. If we don't do both we are missing something HUGE.

Points of disagreement:
-I think there is a big difference between making a physical idol that is stated outright as sin and systematic conclusions of summarizing scripture. I don't think that I have made the Bible an idol because of my or theologians conclusions . At most my conclusions might be an idol. But everyone on this Blob have made conclusions. Why are your conclusion not an idol, why just the traditional ones?
-Errant people and inerrant Bible are not mutually exclusive.
-Traditional theology picks and chooses scripture, so it is no different than saying the Bible is errant (I am putting a lttile harsher that he blog put it.) Just because some who believe inerrancy aren't consistent about how they pick and choose which scripture they are going to live by (like the Prayer of Jabez--don't get me started) doesn't mean that inearrancy is wrong. I'm not going to change my belief in anything based on, "Well, everybody doesn't it any way, so might as well." The Bible has many passages in it that say that it is inerrant. If the Bible is errant than those passages are the first ones to go. If one part isn't true than who is going to judge what is and isn't. Mitch is right, if the Bible is inerrant then it is up to the reader to pick and choose. Thomas Jefferson to scissors and cut out the passage he didn't like. Traditional theologians are being accused of creating God in the image that what and therefore making an idol, how is what Thomas Jefferson any different? He was the judge and didn't submit to the authority of scripture. I may miss apply scripture or even ignore passages but if I am humbly submitting myself to God's word then I believe God will perfect, over time, my understanding and my actions (aka good works!) and ultimately me!
-I don't agree with Christian Agnosticism. Mitch mentioned it. The post above and the Book Club post says that since we are fallible we can't really know anything. God gave us the Bible so that we can know certain things. (Little Einstien's are almost over I got to hurry.) I think I pretty much wrote a thesis on that one the post about the BOOK Club discussion. So look there about this!

Matt said that we shouldn't be divided over the issue of inerrancy. Although I don't think that we have had too much divisions with the denominations, I couldn't submit myself to the authority of a church that didn't submit itself to the authority of the Bible. I normally give refernces when I say things like that. Because it isn't me that is the judge it is the Bible but the people who agree with me probably already can think of several and those who don't believe this wouldn't care what the Bible said about that. So since my kids are now into some crazy show whose characters look like those nestling dolls, I better go.
Julie
Comment
P.S. something HUGE....
Reply #12 on : Sat May 17, 2008, 11:31:07
I wrote a great deal more about what I disagreed with. It should not be assumed that I feel any less strongly about what I agree with. It is only I felt that I had to give an explanation of what I disagreed with.

I think that in the Church (not the buildings, I am meaning all the people in current day) we are either strong on truth, applogetics, theology, right and wrong, or we are all about love, including people, right and wrong really don't matter, let's just all get along.

This is the great division that bothers me the most in the church. If you look at the Bible it over and over pairs two ideas--Truth and Love. Sometimes the word Grace, Kindess, or mercy is used for Love and sometimes justice or righteousness, God's law or word are used instead of Truth but the two ideas just cannot not be separated in the Bible.

I believe that we are actually missing something in truth if we ignore love and we are not really loving if we are leaving out truth.

It gives a whole knew thought about "to Blaive" or no wait I mean "TRUE LOVE".... those of you who get it might enjoy and mutton lettuce and tomato sandwich....I laugh at my own jokes you'll have to forgive me.
Matt
Comment
Nice Point
Reply #13 on : Sat May 17, 2008, 13:31:31
I think Julie made an excellent point that holding to the doctrine of inerrancy can not be treated as idolatry any more than rejecting the doctrine of inerrancy. I totally agree. I don't think that simply believing inerrancy is symptomatic of bibliolatry. I think people of all convictions run the risk of making their theological conclusions into idols. I believe the goal for us all to strive towards is holding our convictions with humility while being open to dialogue with people of different opinions and being open to the guidance of God through the Holy Spirit. No doubt, this is a challenge for us all.

Without intending to launch into more arguements, I would like to just point out how offensive and hurtful it is when my more conservative Christian brothers and sisters use dismissive language suggesting that because I don't hold to the doctrine of inerrancy then I don't really care what the Bible says.
Julie
Comment
Sorry Matt
Reply #14 on : Sun May 18, 2008, 21:56:22
Matt,
I'm sorry. It isn't that I am trying to be dismissive but it's hard to think it would matter. In a post about the Bible being an Idol and with many people saying that too many conservatives overly emphasize the Bible I guess I lost but guts to be bold enough to put it in. I get the impression that I would be DISMISSED for referencing scripture, that it would be considered "idolatry" at worst and at best "old fashion."

If your not offended I will included as many scripture references that I can.

Oh, and I couldn't figure out how to get to your website.
Julie
Comment
EDIT!
Reply #15 on : Sun May 18, 2008, 22:06:12
I just read one of my posts above.....

"Although I DO think that we have had too much divisions with the denominations...."

AHHHHG---How one typo can change everything!!!!! The last thing I want is to be divisive! Difference of opinions does not have to lead to fights among ourselves.
Comment
the Logos <> the biblos
Reply #16 on : Mon May 19, 2008, 03:09:58
The lack in English of the precise distinctions in NT Greek foster Bibliolatry.

The "Logos" is the Word of God, the second Person of the Trinity, the pre-existent Christ, the Creator by Whom all things were made, who transcends both our time and our universe. Uncapitalized, "logos" accounts for all but 30 of the instances of "word" in the NT.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)
"Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth." (John 17:17)
"He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God." (Rev 19:13)

On the other hand, "biblos", the book, is the word of God the Holy Spirit, from Whom comes no error, which He inspired in the authors of the scriptures. Wherever "book" appears in the English NT, it translates the Greek word "biblos".

English muddles the difference between "Logos" and "biblos", translating both as the "word" (of God). This lack of distinction in the English language causes or contributes to bibliolatry, the worship of the Bible. The Bible may become an idol representing or in place of the Holy Spirit, especially among those who are less familiar with the Holy Spirit personally or who have rejected Him.
CWC
Comment
Re: Have We Made the Bible Into an Idol?
Reply #17 on : Tue May 20, 2008, 08:32:19
Here is a quote from John MacArthur that I truly agree with.

True Objectivity
May 13th, 2008

(By John MacArthur)

"Biblical truth is objective. It is true by itself. It is true whether or not we feel it's true. It is true whether or not it has been validated by someone's experience. It is true because God says it is true. It is wholly true, and it is true down to the smallest jot and tittle. Psalm 119:160 says, "The entirety of Your word is truth, and every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever."

That is the very starting point and the necessary foundation for a truly Christian world-view. Give up the ground of biblical truth, and whatever belief-system you have left is not worthy to be labeled Christian, even if it retains vestiges of Christian symbolism and terminology.

Many who would call themselves Christians today are in precisely that situation. They use the language and symbolism of Christianity, but their real source of authority is something besides Scripture. Some simply live by their feelings and shape their beliefs in accord with their own personal preferences. Others actually claim God speaks directly to them through voices, strong impressions, or vague feelings which they interpret as direct revelations from the Holy Spirit. Still others think of the Scriptures as an improvisational script, which they can modify or interpret any way they please. In any case, their lives and beliefs are ordered in accord with their own personal preferences.

But historic Christianity is based on the objective revelation of Scripture. That is why our first key word for describing the Christian world view is objectivity. Our faith is grounded in the conviction that God has spoken, and His Word is objective truth. What He has given us is absolute and unshakable - and it is the truth by which all other truth-claims are measured."

I have nothing else to say.
Chris
Comment
@CWC
Reply #18 on : Wed May 21, 2008, 10:53:30
Forgetting John MacArthur's circular reasoning (using the Bible to prove the Bible's inerrancy), I would ask you two questions to consider on this issue.
1. If inerrant scripture "is the very starting point and the necessary foundation for a truly Christian world-view", whose interpretation of that scripture is the inerrant one?
2. How do you determine which historical writings are to be considered inerrant?
CWC
Comment
Re: Have We Made the Bible Into an Idol?
Reply #19 on : Thu May 22, 2008, 09:21:57
If you don't take the Word of God as Truth, where is your hope. You have none. It hurts my heart to think that a "christian" would think this way about the very Word that gives us life. Maybe you have been burned from religion, whatever, it is true. The one thing we need to do is, examine ourselves to see that we are in the faith. How do we do this except through the reading of the scriptures. If our lives don't line up with that Word we are in error, not the Bible.

Have we ever lied?
Have we ever stolen anything?
Have we ever lusted after something or someone?
God considers that adultry of the heart.
We have broken His commandments and are deserving of hell. God will judge us according to His word and it will be swift and just.
But this is the Gospel, that God sent His Son into the world, to take the form of man. He lived a perfect life and died as a sacrifice for our sins. It was pleasing to God. He took our punishment upon Himself so that we don't have to.

You see, it is our sins, breaking God's law, that sends us to hell. All men have a conscience. They know right from wrong. God has placed this in every man. We are without excuse on Judgement Day.
CWC
Comment
Re: Have We Made the Bible Into an Idol?
Reply #20 on : Thu May 22, 2008, 09:50:14
If we will repent(turn from our sins) and trust Jesus for our salvation we will be saved. We must get the Word out. Time is short. Don't wait.
kristen
Comment
re: cwc's first comment
Reply #21 on : Thu May 22, 2008, 14:19:21
the objective truth of the bible is not what rachel is calling into question with her post (i don't think anyway). one can believe that the bible holds (or is comprised of) objective truth and can also believe that it proves impossible for us humans to fully access that truth, for we are incapable of looking at the bible objectively. these are not at all mutually exclusive.

my hope, then, is in Christ and the redeeming work of the cross and ressurrection. my faith is not grounded in that God has spoken; rather it is grounded in that He sent His Son. this is truth that we can read in the bible but it is the Spirit that brings conviction of its Truth. otherwise, all who have read the bible would be believers, would they not?
Comment
Bible errancy
Reply #22 on : Mon June 29, 2009, 18:01:18
The Bible is errant, and it provides a way to compensate for that fact.

The Bible twice declares that it is errant. The first declaration is Matthew 13:33 which reads, "Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened." The second declaration is Luke 13:21 which reads, "It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened."

The Bible thrice mentions a way to compensate for the errancy. The first mention was at Deuteronomy 19:15 which reads, "One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established." The second was at Matthew 18:16 which reads, "But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established." The third mention was at 2 Corinthians 13:1 which reads, "This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." Their commonality, which is the way to remove the leaven, reads, "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."

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