Book Club Discussion: Is Jesus a Christian?

In Chapter 12 of William P. Young’s The Shack, Jesus talks with the book’s protagonist, Mackenzie, about the inadequacy of institutions in bringing people closer to God.

Jesus says, “Institutions, systems, ideologies, and all the vain, futile efforts of humanity that go with them are everywhere, and interaction with all of it is unavoidable. But I can give you freedom to overcome any system of power in which you find yourself, be it religious, economic, social, or political. You will grow in the freedom to be inside or outside all kinds of systems and to move freely between and among them. Together, you and I can be in it and not of it.”

Mackenzie asks, “Is that what it means to be a Christian?” To which Jesus responds, “Who said anything about being a Christian? I’m not a Christian.”

Young writes, “The idea struck Mack as odd and unexpected, and he couldn’t keep himself from grinning. ‘No, I suppose you aren’t.’

Jesus continues, ‘Those who love me come from every system that exists. They were Buddhists or Mormons, Baptists or Muslims, Democrats, Republicans and many who don’t vote or are not part of any Sunday morning or religious institution. I have followers who were murderers and many who were self-righteous. Some are bankers and bookies, Americans and Iraqis, Jews and Palestinians. I have no desire to make them Christian, but I do want to join them in their transformation into sons and daughters of my Papa, into my brothers and sisters, into my Beloved.”

“Does that mean,” asked Mack, “That all roads will lead to you?”

“Not at all,” smiled Jesus as he reached for the door handle to the shop, “Most roads don’t lead anywhere. What it does mean is that I will travel any road to find you.”

I love this sentiment. Christians so often forget that the power of salvation lies not in a religious institution, but in a loving God who reaches out to all people.

As many of you know, I’ve spent many years struggling with the implications of religious pluralism. Growing up, I was taught that anyone who does not explicitly express faith in Jesus Christ and convert to Christianity is, without a doubt, bound to eternity in hell.

For many years, I believed that Christians had only two options regarding the destiny of the un-evangelized. They could either be exclusivists or universalists. Exclusivists believe that only Christians are saved, and universalists believe that all people are saved. In college, I was assured that only the first option was biblical, and that universalists themselves were most likely destined to hell along with the Buddhists, and Muslims, and Hindus, as their position was far too unorthodox to make them “true believers.”

Since then, I have found that there are more than two ways of approaching religious pluralism. I don’t have to choose between believing that God saves only a handful or that God saves everyone, including those who reject Him or practice unrepentant evil.

Traditional exclusivism holds that 1) Jesus Christ is the only Savior, and 2) explicit faith in Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation. While I agree with the first statement, I have reservations about the second, and prefer instead to hold an agnostic yet optimistic view concerning those who have never heard the gospel or who subscribe to other religions. Peter’s joyful reaction to the unexpected faith of Cornelius best describes my reaction to what Scripture says about the unevangelized: “I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality,  but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.” (Acts 10:34-35)

If you want me to get technical, I suppose you might say I am an “inclusivist.” I will readily admit, however, that there is much I do not know about how God works among other people or how He will judge the world.

More about that in future posts…

The focus here is on the idea that institutions themselves do not have saving (or for that matter, damning) powers.

I don’t know how God will judge in eternity. However, I know that those of us blessed with the knowledge of Jesus Christ, should  be slow to judge and careful of over-confidence, always heeding Christ’s warning that “not everyone who says to Me on that day, ’Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven…” (Matthew 7:21-23)

I also don’t know the degree to which God is present in other religions. I’ve seen both very good and very bad fruit come from organized religion--including Christianity--and prefer to think of each individual as spiritually unique rather than the sum of his or her religious culture. I can only hope that non-Christians would do the same for me. 

I might be opening a can of worms here, but this is an important issue that I think will draw more and more attention as our culture becomes more global. What are your thoughts? Do you think it is possible to escape the confines of the choice between exclusivism and universalism? Is there a theological “third way” here?

C.S. Lewis wrote a really beautiful passage that touches on this subject in The Last Battle of the Narnia series. It is written from the perspective of a pagan named Emeth who, until encountering Aslan, had been following Aslan’s enemy, Tash. I’ve always interpreted Tash to represent non-Christian religions, but perhaps, in light of this conversation, it is better to think of Tash as representing any institution (including Christianity) that claims to be a vehicle to salvation.

Emeth remembers his first encounter with Aslan:

“Then I fell at his feet and thought, Surely this is the hour of death, for the Lion (who is worthy of all honour) will know that I have served Tash all my days and not him…But the Glorious One bent down his golden head and touched my forehead with his tongue and said, Son, thou art welcome. But I said, Alas, Lord I am no son of Thine but the servant of Tash. He answered, Child, all the service thou hast done to Tash, I account as service done to me. Then by reason of my great desire for wisdom and understanding, I overcame my fear and questioned the Glorious One and said, Lord is it rue, as the Ape said, that thou and Tash are one? The Lion growled so that the earth shook (but his wrath was not against me) and said. It is false. Not because he and I are one, but because we are opposites.

I take to me the services which thou hast done to him. For I and he are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore, if any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for oath’s sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him. And if any man do a cruelty in my name, then, though he says the name Aslan, it is Tash whom he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted. Dost thou understand, Child?

I said, Lord, though knowest how much I understand. But I said also (for the truth constrained me), Yet I have been seeking Tash all of my days. Beloved, said the Glorious One, unless thy desire had been for me though wouldst not have sought so long and so truly. For all find what they truly seek.”


Katrina W
Comment
Re: Book Club Discussion: Is Jesus a Christian?
Reply #1 on : Tue April 29, 2008, 20:52:24
Well, I guess I can begin with saying that this was a very interesting blog.

Simplicity. I think christians sometimes forget how easy it is to come to the Lord. "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me." He is our salvation.
Everyone has a chance to hear. Whether they believe or not falls in with free choice. It reminds me of the passage that deals with the sowing of the seeds. These seeds were thrown on all different types of soil and produced different outcomes. You'll have the person who will believe their whole lfe. You'll have the death bed confession. You'll get those who proclaim that they believe but don't know what it truly means to have a relationship with Jesus.Then there are those who will hear and walk away.
This gets me to the part with the church as an institution. Does the building itself save you? Nope. It's what taught inside its walls that do. God assigned roles to us all and some are played out within these buildings. I feel its very important for a christian to have a "family" outside their own to have fellowship with whether its in a big fancy church or in a store front environment. "Where 2 or 3 are gathered...there I am."

I also believe for those who have the Holy Spirit within them that even if they turn from the Lord, the Holy Spirit doesn't leave. Jesus just doesn't run when we do. He's at our side waiting patiently for us.

Simplicity.

** I have enjoyed reading your blogs. Love the CS Lewis quotes!!**
Jason
Comment
Re: Book Club Discussion: Is Jesus a Christian?
Reply #2 on : Tue April 29, 2008, 20:55:38
Jesus clearly stated: "I am the way the truth and the light, NO man can come unto the Father EXECPT by Me." John 14:6

We all have a problem...sin. "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life THROUGH Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 3:23. Unless we resolve our sin problem, we all likewise will perish. The only way to resolve our sin problem is through Jesus. The Bible clearly states this fact. To be 'good' or truly following a religion or belief system is falling short of Scripture. If the blood of Jesus isn't necessary for salvation, then Jesus died in vain. Scripture states: without the shedding of blood there can be no remission of sins. This is pointing to the death of Christ...the coming Messiah...the sacrificial Lamb of God.

Concerning salvation...one must ask: "How can one be made right with God?" The Bible clearly supports the fact that Jesus is the only way to be made right with God.
Mitch
Comment
Salvation
Reply #3 on : Tue April 29, 2008, 23:15:04
Thus if you have not heard of Jesus and are believing and living your own way . . . you perish. Thus the call to proclaim Jesus as Lord and the mission of the church so clearly laid out in scripture; to glorify God by declaring Jesus to the world, evangelism, missions, discipleship,etc.
Matt
Comment
Random Thoughts
Reply #4 on : Wed April 30, 2008, 10:50:40
Rachel,

I have enjoyed your posts on this topic. I meant to add a comment after your post last week on “The Shack” in reference to the compassion of God (http://www.rachelheldevans.com/article-1208790962). But I’ll throw in my ten cents worth on the topic.

I have to say, first of all, that your quotes from “The Shack” have not made me want to read the book. Despite the fact that the ideas being addressed are infinitely fascinating, the book seems to offer the most trite and contrived sounding dialogues that honestly make cringe. So I will leave aside the book itself and just make a few comments that have come to mind. In hopes of avoiding writing a full essay here, I’ll just go with a bullet-point format, in no particular order:

• Christian conceptions of exclusivism and inclusivism have also been deep concerns of mine. My own exclusivist soteriological convictions lead me to study other religions, particularly Islam, that I might be a more effective apologetic for Christianity. But after five years of living and studying in three different Muslim countries, I have arrived at very different convictions regarding the fate of non-Christians. I think there is a tendency among evangelicals to believe that if people of other religions simply sincerely sought after God (or responded to God’s seeking—however you prefer to word it), then they would come to the revelation that Jesus was the son of God who died for their sins. I have come to regard this as absolutely ridiculous. I have been treated with the love and spirit of Christ by countless God-fearing Muslims who desire nothing more than to be faithful to the God of the world. There are a whole host of social, cultural, and historical reasons why people don’t believe in Jesus (and why Christians do) that has nothing to do with the actual work of God in people’s lives.

• I think your suggestion that there is more than just two ways to look at the question of exclusivism is on solid ground. In fact, I would argue that there is more than just an additional “third way,” but rather a whole spectrum of interpretations which, upon closer analysis, could be grouped into several different categories. I would add as well, that these various Christian understandings are not limited to the modern era but span the entire Judaic-Christian history.

• The position that you seem to be staking out for yourself appears to more-or-less fall in line with the view of Karl Rahner, the 20th century Catholic theologian who dubbed the term “Anonymous Christian.” This has been an extremely influential view, particularly in the Catholic Church, though the term is no longer used with much frequency. However, your language suggests you are more influenced by C.S. Lewis. His “The Great Divorce” presents a similar view to that of Rahner but in a literary narrative.

• I think the issue brought up in last week’s post must be central. How do we conceive of God’s compassion, Her mercy, Its justice, and His love (for pronoun explanation, see Rachel’s post on April 14th)? I have come to embrace a tentative inclusivist perspective. I make no apology for the fact that I stake the weight of this position on the revelation of God as compassionate, loving, and merciful. These are central concepts in the Scriptures. For these words to make any sense, they must be comparable to our experience of them. The fact that no sane parent could bear to see their child seriously harmed is a valid and strong natural revelation to mankind regarding God’s love for humanity. Some will say that I do not give enough emphasis to God’s justice, but I think it this is born out of an errant sense of God’s justice. Again, going back to the example of a parent (a metaphor often employed in the Bible), a parent can be just in his/her treatment of children without needing to resort to physical abuse.

• There are always going to be the arguments that the Bible warns people of the danger of hell/damnation and therefore the danger must be real. But I think the Bible itself shows that this does not have to be the case. There are instances, particularly in the Old Testament, when God threatens certain punishments or even explicitly states that It will enact a certain judgment on a certain people only to later find that He relented in Her “anger” and chose to show mercy on the group. Note: this does not prove that all of God’s warnings are impotent but it does give us hope that even when God says if you don’t do x I will do y, He leaves Himself the right to show mercy and compassion.

• Christians tend to have an unjustifiably simplistic conception of the events after death. We are typically taught that immediately after our death (at least to our own perceptions—though perhaps occurring much later on a day of resurrection) we will be brought before God for decisive and eternal judgment where our eternal fate will be decided. While I acknowledge the fact that the judgment motifs are employed in several places in the Bible, there remains an infinite number of possibilities regarding the chances that God may provide to people in the post-terrestrial existence [and please, I hope no one quotes Hebrews 9:27—this still does not clarify what, if anything, occurs between death and judgment].

• The question of free will, as always, comes into play here. If you take a calvanistic approach and believe that God has chosen some for heaven and some for eternal suffering, I believe you violate core Christian concepts of God’s justice and love. If, however, you opt for free will, saying that God invites all to Herself but allows them to choose for themselves, then I doubt that anyone will find themselves in hell for I believe that God’s love for His creation will eventually win over the hardest of hearts.

• In the end, I think the whole paradigm of God’s judgment on people is in drastic need of re-thinking. Revelation is progressive. The progression we find in the Bible is that of God slowly revealing Itself to people and the people slowly responding to God in the ways they know best at the time. The whole concept of hell and judgment did not evolve until quite late in antiquity and owed most of its emergence in the Judeo-Christian tradition to the Hellenistic influences brought by Alexander the Great’s conquests. The Bible shows a progression. It points in a direction. To stop with the cosmological and eschatological paradigms held by the writers of the New Testament—making the progress of God’s work with Her people into a stagnant institution—is to do a great injustice to the Bible itself. Christians have got to get over their fear of betraying the tradition by following “modern” ideas. The ideas of God’s followers have always been in going through drastic change—and this is the very work of God. This is what the tradition ought to teach us.

Obviously, being brief is not my gift. I apologize for rambling on so much. Thanks for your thoughts, Rachel.

-Matt P.
Micah
Comment
Is Jesus a follower of Jesus?
Reply #5 on : Wed April 30, 2008, 23:53:52
I would suspect not.

Peter, Paul, James, and John were Christians, though.
Comment
"The way, truth, and life"
Reply #6 on : Thu May 01, 2008, 00:51:10
Thanks for the great responses!

Matt, I appreciate the depth with which you have considered this subject. It is always encouraging for me to bump into other folks who struggle with the moral implications of a God who damns the majority of the human population to hell, most without even having a chance to be saved.

Regarding the John 14:6 references, I think it’s important to take the “I am the way, the truth, and the life” verse in context. (I’ve had it quoted at me more times than I can count, so I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about what it means.) When Jesus speaks these words, He is engaged in an important conversation with His disciples, in which He continually makes the case for being “one with the Father.”

In verse 8, Phillip reveals that he and the disciples are still struggling with this concept. I wonder if the emphasis Jesus is making here is not so much on His exclusivity in regard to other religions and among those who never heard His name, but on the importance of recognizing the relationship between Jesus and the Father. If someone who rejects Jesus rejects the Father, shouldn’t it be assumed that someone who rejects the Father rejects Jesus? It then follows that accepting Jesus is accepting the Father, and accepting the Father is accepting Jesus. Perhaps those who do not have the luxury of being born at the right place and the right time to hear the gospel can accept Jesus by embracing whatever revelation God has given them.

I find it interesting that, just a few verses away, in John 15:22, Jesus is warning his disciples about the people who will persecute them and says, “If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates me hates My Father also. If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated Me and My Father as well.”

Does this not imply that those who never had the opportunity to truly encounter and reject Jesus will not be held accountable for never having the chance?
Comment
Jesus' institution
Reply #7 on : Thu May 01, 2008, 14:14:20
"I will build my church."
--Jesus (Matthew 16:18).

Last time I checked, the church is an institution.

Jesus is not a Christian, a follower of Christ, because he IS Christ!

To claim Jesus would say, "I have no desire to make them Christian" could hardly be more antithetical to what the Scriptures say.

If you're not a Christian, you cannot be living by faith, and "whatever is not from faith is sin" (Romans 14:23).

Therefore, to not be a Christian (for anyone other than Christ himself), is a sin.

Jesus does NOT want people to sin, especially committing THE unforgivable sin of not being a Christan.

Tim
11,288 days
Dan
Comment
Is Jesus...
Reply #8 on : Thu May 01, 2008, 16:03:30
The real question... is Jesus a Calvinist?
Micah
Comment
Re: Book Club Discussion: Is Jesus a Christian?
Reply #9 on : Sat May 03, 2008, 14:51:28
That's not the question, Dan. That's easily answered!
Julie
Comment
Oh pick those worms up we can't have them getting away!
Reply #10 on : Sat May 03, 2008, 21:24:01
"I might be opening a can of worms here, but this is an important issue that I think will draw more and more attention as our culture becomes more global. What are your thoughts? Do you think it is possible to escape the confines of the choice between exclusivism and universalism? Is there a theological “third way” here?"


I think it is reasonable to suggest a third option. I think that the option your suggesting is one that is ignored in the Christian circles (at least the College we went to). It isn't a new idea as you pointed out C.S. Lewis believed the middle ground. It is difficult to argue with him, I mean he is C.S. LEWIS! I have read the passage you quoited and also read the Great Divorce. (I recommend the Great Divorce as food for thought not literal). At the risk of disagreeing with the great C.S. Lewis I must say I have great reservations with middle option portrayed in "The Last Battle"

I don't believe that you can believe and follow in a god that is not the God of the Bible and go to Heaven and yes the alternative his hell. Although it may be correct that Jesus was making the point that he was one with the Father when he said, "I am the way the truth and the life , no one cometh unto the Father but by me." It still doesn't negate that you have to come through him. If you reject the Father you are reject Christ and visa versa. Reject him is the unforgivable sin. I do not think that devotion to any religious "institution" will save. That includes Christian Churches.


Now I think you might be considering those who have not had a chance to choose Christ. Babies, severely mentally handicapped, and the "un-evangelized" these are all issues I think any believer in Christ struggles with at point. After the birth of my first son it did bother me. I finally took the last little bit of my will and turned into faith. I trust that God is good and in control. I think that somehow he either "elects" them or he gives them some chance of choosing. I don't have any proof of it Biblically at this point. However, I do know of the God of the Bible, I know what he did for me, I know the he who knew no sin became sin for me that I might have the righteousness of God in him. I must trust Him or be in opposition to him. So even if he doesn't give those people a chance or election then that is up to him.

You have asked many other questions or posed many non-traditional ideas. I can't get into those things now. I may not agree with some of your conclusions but I always think it is better to ask the questions than to pretend they aren't there.

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